[Mortgage Is ‘Just A Fancy Bullsh*t Word For Paying Rent For 30 Years To The Bank,’ Says Real Estate Billionaire Grant Cardone — Here’s Why Renting Could Be A Better Financial Move
](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mortgage-just-fancy-bullsh-t-171148202.html?guccounter=1)
He assumes an average monthly rental cost of $1354, and 3% rent increase annually. I have lived in apartments where they increased the rent 10% one year and 15% the next.
Even putting that aside, ok, by the time you’re dead, say it works out to the same amount spent. But as an owner, you’ve now invested in a generational asset. Renting now means your kids and theirs will also likely rent.
Gtfo.
I’d kill for my rent to only be $1354.
That’s about my mortgage payment.
You’re forgetting that elder care will eat up that wealth.
Which is the problem we have: For way too many people an asset capable of depreciation is their main or even only retirement savings. So reducing the price of housing will be a problem for a lot of local and state taxpayers.
Not saying it’s right, just saying how it is.
Wait - can you explain this further?
Why depreciating asset?
Also, they probably aren’t selling it right? Just using as a rent-free option after paying mortgage to lower cost of living?
What am I missing?
If we increase the supply of housing, the price of existing stock will go down. Heck, if we keep hedge funds out it might go down, or at least not increase as much as it would.
At least they can sell the house. /s, but not.
My mortgage is about that, on a 3 bedroom home, because I was fortunate to buy it in the mid-10s before prices in my area went insane. Our original mortgage was about $1150, but it’s gone up $200 due to property taxes over 8 years. This averages an increase of $12.50 per year, but I know people whose rents have increased by $200 in a single year in my city. Getting a fixed rate mortgage (and refinancing when interest rates are low) is so much more stable than renting
“Freedom is overrated, people are happier when they pick cotton.” Slave Owner
“Renting makes me money.”
Okay, work backwards from there.
FFS these people.
Mortgages make the bank money.
If only there was some kind of large collection that represented the people that could offer loans for cost or near cost instead.
represented the people
Founding fathers laughing in corporate interests
You’d be surprised what they would support. Until the neoliberals killed capitalism there wasn’t really that much problem with the idea of governments running public services.
Hell, usury is a sin. Very clearly defined as such, biblically. You tell them the US government is in a position to act as an interest-free loan office and they probably wouldn’t have any real problems with the idea.
“Hell, usury is a sin. Very clearly defined as such, biblically.”
Ayyyy that would be a wonderful thing to bring up to a Dominionist Republican and watch them struggle between “need to force people to believe we’re a religious nation” and “we cannot give the people services, they must pay.”
Well you see this Old Testament rule doesn’t matter because it benefits their owners.
Until the neoliberals killed capitalism
Capitalism is very much not dead (though it does smell rotten)
It was a bit of an oblique reference to The Man Who Broke Capitalism by David Gelles, I just like to imagine it was murdered instead.
Every time I see articles about this my knee jerk reaction gets more and more unhinged. Regardless, the world would be a better place if people like this were dead.
Thats the nicest way to say it. These people fucking suck.
They’re living piñatas and it’s time to pop em.
If renting doesn’t make sense at half of what it costs to pay the mortgage, how does the mortgage make sense
Where on earth is renting cheaper than a mortgage?
Let’s say it’s in Orange County where the house is $800 grand," Cardone said. "You’d have to sell the house for $2 million just to pay the interest bac
As opposed to paying even the same in rent, where you get NONE of it back?
assuming a 3% annual increase in rent
Lol, what planet do they live on?
On that 800k house, it takes a little over 30 years to get 2 million out of it if the house appreciates at 2% per year. Housing in many places has appreciated much faster than that (much faster than the market or any other single thing, including cryptocurrency)
And this is why we have a housing shortage. Because it’s in the financial interests of owners to restrict the building of housing.
In high CoL places, rent is routinely much lower than a mortgage— not to even mention the incredible down payment that you have to get the loan in the first place.
As an example, a one bedroom apartment in SF would cost you around $1,000,000 to buy. If you somehow have $200k to get a mortgage, your monthly payment is about $6k. To rent that same apartment, you’d only (lol, only) pay ~$3000-4500.
On top of this, the cost of owning is higher than just your mortgage payment. Your lender will most likely require homeowners insurance which can easily run a few thousand dollars per year (compared to a couple hundred for renters insurance). You also have to pay for the big repairs yourself when as a renter if the heat breaks that’s the landlord’s problem.
This is me. I live in LA, near Hollywood. I pay 3k/month in rent for a 1200sq ft 2br apartment that’s close to everything.
A condo similar to my apartment (it was a condo conversion of a building similar to mine) in my neighborhood sold for almost a million this past year. That’s about 6k/month all in w/ taxes and whatnot, not including maintenance costs.
Why the fuck would I pay double to own the same thing, and lose all my flexibility, when I take that 3k difference every month and invest it. Which builds wealth too. Sure, my investments may not be as inflation protected as a home, but they’re a lot more fucking liquid. And I can move in 30 days no unsold house hanging over my head.
In Australia and most developed cities in Asia rent is cheaper than a mortgage.
This is not correct for Australia.
I’m looking at places in Melbourne at the moment. A 1-bedroom place is around $450 a week or $1800 a month roughly.
You can easily get a cheaper mortgage than that for a 1 bedroom place. Potentially even get a 2 bedroom unit for same as you’d pay in rent.
Do mortgages function the same in those Asian cities?
I mean you could compare the ‘monthly payment’ on Jenose in Korea but it’s not the real number. It’s not comparable.
There is no right or wrong answer when it comes to rent vs own. Do what is best for you
What I will impart to people here though is always look where the message is coming from. Therein you glean some of the answer.
There is no sight or wrong answer when it comes to rent vs own. Do what is best for you
Putting money into your own ownership, versus putting money in for somebody else’s ownership, is a very straightforward scenario examination, to determine which one is better for you.
Yes and no. Ownership is valuable. But the flexibility to live and move with less responsibility is also valuable.
Yes and no. Ownership is valuable. But the flexibility to live and move with less responsibility is also valuable.
It’s not a matter of responsibility, you’re responsible for making a payment each month, either way, so that cancels out.
Your paying the same kinds of money out of pocket each month in either case. You might as well own what your emptying your wallet for when you’re done, than not. Wealth begets wealth, it snowballs.
In understand your point. It costs money to buy, sell, and broker house/mortgage. People have to live in their houses (in a normal economy) for like 3-5 years before even making a break even point on home. Just bought my first house and we’re drowning in interest at the moment. Rents will fall faster when interes rates change than we will be able to refi. BUT it’ll be better for us in the long run.
It costs money to buy, sell, and broker house/mortgage.
Its true that you need to save up the initial down payment. But in the long run it’s smarter to do so, than renting.
People have to live in their houses (in a normal economy) for like 3-5 years before even making a break even point on home.
It’s definitely not a short-term investment, unless you really try to play the real estate market.
But I’m not speaking towards trying to turn a short-term profit, just not having a short/long-term loss.
Put it another way, whose mortgage would you want to pay off, yours, or someone else’s?
Finally, real estate prices continue to always go up, so even if you had to sell short-term where you’ve been paying mostly interest you could probably sell the property for more value to make up the difference.
Just bought my first house and we’re drowning in interest at the moment.
All home loans are mostly paying interest up front, it’s not into the later years of the loan when you start paying substantial principle payments.
A neat trick is to always make an extra small principal only payment with each month mortgage payment, and that can change a 30 year loan to an 18 year loan.
Just make sure the write in the memo field on your check “principal only payment”, or else the loan company will try to just take that extra money and put it on the interest only portion of the loan (they’re tricky that way).
Rents will fall faster when interes rates change
Historically rental costs have always gone up, and not down.
Did you mean the monthly mortgage payment amount on a home loan?
BUT it’ll be better for us in the long run.
Ownership truly is better.
This is all neglecting that after that 18-30 years, you don’t have that payment. Also, if you get a home that is much closer to your annual income, you can pay it off in a much shorter time. With the way properties are going right now that is almost a joke to say, but here I am, living on a dream. Also, having dealt with slumlord landleeches charging me $1k/month for a house that would have sold for $30k five years ago, I can honestly say that I never want to be subjected to a landlord again. Banks may be scummy, but they are heavily legislated scummy. Also, I would much rather be responsible for my house than some asshole. The house has mold, sparking outlets, the foundation is cracked in multiple locations, and huge cracks are forming in all of the walls as the house warps working towards collapse. And when I brought this all to the landlord’s attention they tried to illegally evict me and raised my rent by $125/month. We immediately started viewing new places. My wife is pregnant, and if that baby has a single birth defect I am suing these two into oblivion.
This is all neglecting that after that 18-30 years, you don’t have that payment.
I don’t understand this sentence?When you’re done with the loan and it’s paid off you don’t have to make any more payments, so I’m not sure what you’re trying to express?Edit: I understand now. It was implied in what I was saying, so not being ignored. I was assuming people would know that when a mortgage is done being paid off you no longer have to continue to make payments.
Also, if you get a home that is much closer to your annual income, you can pay it off in a much shorter time.
Oh totally agree. I was suggesting 30 because most people seem to only have enough money to make a down payment on a 30-year loan. If you can get a 15-year loan that’s much better.
I personally always got 15-year loans, because with those loans you end up paying the least amount of interest on. Thirty year loans are horrible, considering how much interest you have to pay versus principal, which is why I would suggesting you try to pay it off faster than the 30 years by paying a little bit extra every month with extra principal payments.
I think you’re neglecting to factor in the opportunity cost of investing that down payment over time. Granted most people don’t have the necessary discipline so I agree a mortgage is a great way to force yourself to invest and probably best for most people.
But I’m not convinced it’s going to make you wealthier in the long run vs putting all that money saved for a down payment in broad market ETFs and staying disciplined about it.
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It’s not just money. Ownership means taking care of the house, and dealing with the buying/selling process. Would you advocate that university students buy a house for three years then sell again?
A good rental means you’re paying the landlord to take care of things for you.
I agree in the long term, since we always need somewhere to live, that personal ownership is better; but if you’re moving a lot, or perhaps depending on your job situation, I think renting is a valuable service for many people.
Would you advocate that university students buy a house for three years then sell again?
Assuming a university student had enough income, yes, most definitely. But most people buy houses after college, as they are busy paying for/off college first.
But realize that monthly rent payment is going to be about the same price as a monthly mortgage payment.
I agree in the long term, since we always need somewhere to live, that personal ownership is better; but if you’re moving a lot, or perhaps depending on your job situation, I think renting is a valuable service for many people.
Well just realize that you’re losing money by taking advantage of that service, and then, yes, it is valuable service, but also a more costly service.
Is it more convenient for you to have food already cooked delivered to you? Yes, of course. Will it cost you more money, will you lose more money, than if you went to the grocery store, got the ingredients, brought it home, and cook the food yourself? Most definitely.
The point I’m making is don’t pay somebody else’s mortgage off, pay your own mortgage off.
A good rental means you’re paying the landlord to take care of things for you.
While strictly true, and I do not mean to be insulting, but that is a very financially dumb thing to say.
As I mentioned previously, you’re giving your money to the landlord so that he can earn more money for himself, versus getting your own property and earning money for yourself.
Make your money work for you, and not for someone else. You earned that money.
Is it more convenient for you to have food already cooked delivered to you?
I mean, that’s exactly my point. Services exist to cook and deliver food. Sometimes they’re desirable, sometimes they’re even economically profitable for the customer.
Housing is different from food, and more important/worthwhile to own. But housing-as-a-service is still, I think, a valuable option to have.
In my experience, financially it’s also a valuable option.
Make your money work for you, and not for someone else.
And yet, money is nothing in itself, unless you’re a true capitalist. You’re giving money to a landlord for him to provide you a service. You could instead invest that money in property and do the work of being your own landlord, and reap the benefits of that too.
And yet, money is nothing in itself, unless you’re a true capitalist.
I f’ing hate bots/people who waste my time with nonsense.
You’re going to spend (usually a bit) more per month on mortgage payments than rent, so it’s not really “the same kinds of money”.
Is this true in the US? Its definitely not been true anywhere I’ve lived in Europe. A mortgage has always been cheaper for a larger property, it’s just gathering the initial deposit to buy that’s the hard bit.
gathering the initial deposit
In the USA, you no longer need a large deposit. Many lenders will go all low as 3% down. You pay extra fees each month when you are under 20% down though. Since most people can’t afford the 20% down, they’re stuck paying more each month.
Yes, generally in the USA you pay less to own than to rent if you put the 20% down. The other cost of ownership (maintenance and repairs). If you add those in, owning us still usually a bit cheaper. Renting, however, stabilizes the monthly cost.
Interesting, I didn’t know about the low deposit requirements. I haven’t really seen it below 10% over here, but it might well be possible.
It also depends if you’re in cities or not I guess. My first house was in a small city and the rent wasn’t bad there, it was just desirable to buy if possible. The next two cities I lived were capitals and rent is out of control there. Though house prices are too in those situations, so buying a place is usually cheaper but unattainable.
Not true from my experience. When I bought my house rents for similar houses were about $1.2k/mo and my mortgage is ~700/mo (which after taxes and insurance came out to ~$800/mo) but the other $400/mo can be easily eaten by maintenance costs depending on the year.
But what I haven’t seen pointed out yet is that the mortgage will stay the same for 30 years, property taxes & insurnace won’t grow much, but rents will continue to climb. It’s been almost 3 years and houses similar to mine are now renting for $1500/mo or more but I now pay ~$900/mo for my house due a small tax increase last year that narrowly got passed (and was noted when it was proposed to be the first property tax increase in quite a few years)
That’s true, I didn’t really think about maintenence costs adding on. Ideally that stuff should add value back to the house so you don’t “lose” it like rent, but that all depends on the housing market forever rising to infinity.
A mortgage has always been cheaper for a larger property, it’s just gathering the initial deposit to buy that’s the hard bit.
What you commented is true in the US as well, unless you live in a very very poor neighborhood and rent.
Afaik the mortgage market (setting mortgage payments, type of mortgage: fixed vs floating) is one of the more efficient markets. So choosing rent/own might not be such a big dilema.
Current state (continuous rise of home prices) is, however, concerning. It used to be that USA’s flexibility to move (and refi) was its great advantage (in labor market).
Grossly oversimplifying home ownership.
its kind of not. we own now. its great. everytime we pay our mortgage, which feels exactly the same as when we were paying rent, we are in essence saving that money as we get it back when we sell this place (which is all contigent on how much its worth when we sell etc).
when we were paying rent, we paid the landperson’s mortgage off month by month, making themmrew wealthy. upkeep is always a part of everything you own.
Spoken like someone who has never had a surprise maintenance issue pop up unexpectedly that costs multiple times your monthly mortgage.
fuck are you talking about? you don’t know anything about me or my house. every house, especially old ones like my late 1800s cottage, needs major repairs. people on the internet making presumptions, so nice to be here.
True, you need to be able to afford to home while you’re living in it, but you make all of that up and more when you sell the property.
Also, your “costs multiple times your monthly mortgage” comment is a rare thing. Usually its just a couple of hundred dollars type of repair, and its a few times in a year.
It was a Lemmy comment. I don’t think you should expect a college course lecture on the subject.
Ultimately though, the comment stands. You’re either enabling somebody else to be more wealthy, or you’re enabling yourself to become more wealthy. The choice is yours.
The choice is yours.
I know you’re just stating an opinion, but that last sentence is downright insulting to me.
I can’t come up with a 10-20% down payment in this lifetime, if food, transportation, and energy prices remain this high relative to my income.
I don’t have time to look for a new job in a cheaper area to live. I am constantly trying to negotiate a higher income with my boss, who seems to be equally financially stressed.
My mental health is declining rapidly as I cope with economic pressures, and I need to be able to afford some sort of therapy as my health insurance doesn’t cover “elective” treatment. Otherwise I’ll hurt myself, or worse, someone else. My wife has multiple sclerosis and I need to stay working, for both of us. She works too.
Renting is not a choice for me, and I suspect millions of other Americans.
You’re either enabling somebody else to be more wealthy, or you’re enabling yourself to become more wealthy. The choice is yours.
I know you’re just stating an opinion, but that last sentence is downright insulting to me.
(I’m including above the whole statement and just bolding the part that you included when you did your reply.)
I meant no disrespect. I personally was a high school dropout from a broken home (and the emotional baggage that goes with that) but was still able to purchase a house, so I know it’s doable.
Having said that, I wasn’t judging you personally. I wasn’t even addressing you directly. I was just expressing a generic opinion about the pros and cons of purchasing versus renting to a wide audience. If that statement felt like an insult to you personally, then you need to look within.
I wish you well and happiness.
Privilege on display.
I mean, that’s kind of how it used to be. “No right or wrong answer, do what works for you.” I wasn’t really in a long-term career at the time so I rented, as a choice. Now housing has gone up so much, almost no one my age can afford to buy a home. And because we’re locked-in to renting, property owners are raising rents, every year to increase their profits. And because we’re all spending so much money just for shelter, we don’t have it saved up to purchase even a cheap home. It happened to me several years ago, it happened to me during the pandemic, it happened during crazy-high inflation, and it’s still happening. They know they have a (almost literal) captive audience. I can’t even afford to move to a different area, and if I did, who’s to say they wouldn’t also start jacking up my rent after the year-long lease is up.
My other choice is to live on the streets. Home-ownership isn’t perfect and has its unique challenges, but ultimately it gives you something renters don’t have: stability and security. We’re fucked…
I mean, you do also have the option of moving to an area with cheaper house prices, y’know leaving behind all of your friends, family, favorite places etc. plus you’d probably have to trade the cost of your home for driving a lot more and therefore buying cars more often if you move to small town America where houses are affordable.
Not to mention leaving behind your source of income…
Are…are you me?
And he personally owns how many houses?
And coincidentally wants people to rent them.
To be fair, I doubt he has mortgages on any of them, so while he may be a dumb asshole, he’s not being hypocritical here.
Housing can’t be both an investment vehicle and affordable. This guy is essentially saying “let’s just nix the affordable part”. Absolute vampire.
He’s literally one of the people making home ownership unaffordable.
LMAO, considering big business is buying up homes literally for this purpose, I’ll take what he’s saying with a grain of salt.
Does that mean we should over extend on buying a house that’s outside of our means? Absolutely not, but at the same time, housing is still way overpriced and since shit is barely regulated, both from a seller and a purchasers standpoint, there’s a lot of regular people getting stuck with a lot of shitty options for living situations.
Just a grain? I say whole mine. I bet he “owns”.
At least enough salt for 3 tequila
Grant cardone is one of the slimiest cunts in the billionaire class, and that’s a high bar
You can safely discount anything he says, because it is always self-serving
At least you get something in return for “paying rent” to the bank. Paying rent to a landlord is just paying someone elses mortgage, for no return whatsoever.
I hate to tell you this, bud, but one day, you’re going to die. You can’t take that house with you. Use your money to travel, and live.
Same for that landlord, he can’t bring the profit he made. I’d rather make sure the money stays in my pocket than his.
Either I spend the money to pay the mortgage or to pay a rent, I’d rather have something I can live in and pass along to my kids.
I traveled quite a bit already, both for leisure and for work before settling down to have a family.
Yeah! Once you’ve spent all your money traveling you can just sell your… oh wait.
And you’re still going to die. Live doing what you want to do, or on your knees in debt before the bank. Your choice.
More like:
Live on your knees past retirement age or take out an early 9mm retirement plan before you’re too old to work.
owning several properties for renting and not needing to actually work is the real fancy bullshit.
did anyone tell that to this leech?
he didn’t become a real estate billionaire by telling people the truth about real estate
Nah I’m sure he rents his house
Aight let’s see. Mortgage is a fixed rate over an agreed upon term that ends with you owning the property, rent increases every year, you have no control over the property and you get fucked constantly.
Yup, totally the same thing.
Also my mortgage for my 1/2 acre property with 1500 sqft house is $50 less per month than my 900 sqft poorly constructed “high end” apartment rent was about to spike up to. You know, after renters protections were removed during the pandemic.
Quick edit: furthermore, it took me until I was 30 to buy a house. In that time I spent 170k in rent, when I started renting the property I’m currently living in was worth 140k. That’s pretty easy math right there. Just like… Come on.
But… but… but you still have to pay for maintenance and repair.
Ok I’m half kidding, given you still have to pay those things but depending on how the math works it can still be cheaper to own.
It’s always cheaper to own given you live an adult life for at least like 15 years. The rub is whether or not you can afford the upfront costs to get a property.
Also you pay for maintenance and repair and taxes and all that nonsense in your rent, it’s just one bill instead of multiple.
Generally cheaper to own, depending on you staying in the same place for 3-5 years and the market conditions in the interim.
If you bought in 2021 and sold just now, you’re probably having a rough time.
I mean if you bought in 2021 and sold now you probably still made about 90k American. But you’d be fucked on the interest rates if you tried to buy again.
But if you were a real estate mogul, and sold a bunch of properties, on average you’d make 90k per property over those two years and not be dealing with interest rates, which is why the guy from the article is telling people to rent.
But you do have a point, it’s not always. If you bought earlier this year and only intended to stay one year, you’re fucked
I mean if you bought in 2021 and sold now you probably still made about 90k American
Depends on your area but most likely not. Homes in my area have fallen ~15% in value. Plus the costs of selling. Plus the costs of buying your new home. Nah.
The average across America have increased by 90k though over that time. Your area is… Strange.
Cost of buying is negligible, it’s really just cost of selling. So fine, you’d come out with like 65k
The thing is as a renter you basically pay for maintenance and repair anyway. If as a renter I damage a wall, I pay for it, if I leave the house messy when I vacate I pay for a cleaner out of my bond. If the place is freshly renovated my rent is higher to cover it, if there’s an unforeseen expense like a tap bursts, sure the owner pays for it… but then my rent goes up 150 a week next year because of “market trends”
Put him on the List.
Put him on the menu
Grant cardone is one of the slimiest cunts in the billionaire class, and that’s a high bar
You can safely discount anything he says, because it is always self-serving
I also, like to troll the poors.
In other news, the job market is overrated and you’d all do better to come and work at my factory in perpetuity as indentured servants.
