I saw a post that talked about racism towards people and when I talked about it the response I got was very heated and a person even called lemmy.world a community of ‘hitlerites’
I have been around for a week or so and this is my first time seeing such explicit vulgar reaction towards another community, is this a one-off or should I block hexbear?
TLDR: they are right-wingers pretending to be left wing
I love this image. Something that always confused me is that they are communist, but support russia? An extremely far right government?
Authoritarians like authoritarian regimes. They’ll perform extreme mental gymnastics to reconcile their preconceived notions with reality, like the tankies that declare China to be socialist. Also, most of them see the US as the Great Satan that is responsible for any and all evil in the world. Therefore anybody who opposes the Great Satan must be good.
I can’t help but wonder if tankies are the political equivalent of flat-earthers. I should probably ask that on NSQ some time, when I can figure out a way of asking that won’t get me banned.
I can’t help but wonder if tankies are the political equivalent of flat-earthers.
One way forward is to ask them for evidence for their viewpoints and investigate their sources for errors. The problem of the flat-earther is that there is objective evidence of a 3D rounded Earth that they can’t adequately counter with objective evidence.
The only problem with that is that I don’t have the political knowledge to be able to counter their responses, and nobody else responds to the thread, so it kind of dies there. If for instance they say (as they have) that North Korea is a perfectly normal country, I don’t have any location-specific knowledge to be able to respond to that, and I’m aware our own media have their own agendas so I’ve no way of knowing objectively who’s right.
North Korea is a particularly tough topic to have objectivity on. On one hand, their isolation in itself means they’re not a typical country by any interpretation, and not gonna lie I’d be surprised if even their supporters claimed it was perfectly normal. On the other hand, its portrayal in the media is highly propagandized, to the point where some defectors (e.g. Yeonmi Park) have made ridiculous claims like that citizens sometimes push a passenger train to work in power outages, and reputable news outlets simultaneously report that everyone must have the same haircut as Kimmy and that having that haircut is also illegal, or claiming multiple officials have been executed with an anti-aircraft gun but it turns out they’re alive. It’s hard to have a meaningful discussion when this is the information we’re given to work with! While NK is often open for work and tourism (albeit stricter tourism than in most countries) and those tourists often enough share videos or write articles, they’re enough to get a peak inside and learn that ok, it’s not a literal cartoon place, they have a water park and rail with a nicer metro than my city and people’s lives are much closer to normal than what we often hear, but there’s only so much we can really learn from these foreigners’ experiences.
Some of the big points that often get overlooked are:
- Their mindset, especially the skepticism and national security extremism didn’t come from nowhere. A major cause of their lack of development are that the UN Command bombing ‘destroyed nearly all of the country’s cities and towns, including an estimated 85% of its buildings.’ [wiki] and the US and later UN sanctioned them [wiki].
- The pervasive propaganda is VERY blunt by our standards. That said, their nationalism and idolization of political leaders is certainly not unique, even if the pictures and statues of their ‘glorious leaders’ everywhere are freakin’ weird. For a comparison to a more familiar country: the US pledge of allegiance, idolization of the Founding Fathers and pervasive flag display are also unusual manifestations of ingrained nationalism, even if to a lesser degree than NKs patriotism.
- South Korea is also pretty far from normal. Their First Republic stage included their leader getting exempted from 8-year term limits and executing the opposition leader while arresting other members, and has repeatedly become a dictatorship up to the present Sixth Republic, where the current president just got impeached for establishing a dictatorship, making them the third SK president to be impeached so far (the second-previous president was being directed by a cult leader’s daughter along with the ‘Eight Goddesses’ group of billionaires who were basically writing legislation themselves.)
But, at the end of the day, with all that context, I would never call North Korea normal or typical, just nowhere near as bizarre as the mass media portrayal from even reputable outlets. And I suppose that’s why some (imo silly) people will overcompensate and try to say that they’re just the same as other countries.
There’s no support for the Russian Federation. Support for the USSR? Absolutely, but not the RF. There’s critical support, as in the RF currently takes an antagonistic stance towards the United States, which many Leftists see as the greater global evil, but no leftist genuinely thinks the RF is doing that out of “good intentions” or has any model that Leftists should replicate.
That sums it up.
Support for the USSR? Absolutely
Wait, really? The ones responsible for, among other things, the Holodomor? Those guys? Why?!
Marxists support the USSR as the world’s first Socialist State. They don’t believe it was some perfect wonderland free from troubles, issues, problems, etc, rather, they acknowledge that the USSR was real Socialism with real victories, like free healthcare and education, an elimination of famine in a country where starvation was regular, doubled life expectancies, dramatically lowered wealth inequality while dramatically raising wages, and over tripled literacy rates to near 100%.
Hexbear aren’t unique in general support for the Soviet Union, the overwhelming majority of Marxists see it as far better than Tsarist Russia and the modern Russian Federation.
They don’t believe it was some perfect wonderland free from troubles, issues, problems, etc, rather, they acknowledge that the USSR was real Socialism with real victories, like free healthcare and education, an elimination of famine in a country where starvation was regular, doubled life expectancies, dramatically lowered wealth inequality while dramatically raising wages,
“doubling” the life expectancy? Life expectancy was 30 years old prior to the USSR forming in 1922, so yes “doubling” to 67 took until 1967, and before they doubled it, they dropped it to 23.6 years old. Tens of millions of Soviet citizens died early deaths to get there. Starvation didn’t end for many and rationing was commonplace. I suppose killing off a sizable portion of your population would mean less mouths to feed, but what a horrible approach to try to solve that problem.
Perhaps a better measure would be infant mortality. The USA, with its “worse” healthcare, has had consistently less than half infant mortality (or even lower) for every year the Soviet Union existed.
and over tripled literacy rates to near 100%.
…in Russian. If you spoke a different language, like Ukrainian, it was forbidden by USSR law from teaching it in schools. This happened to dozens of languages in other Oblasts.
dramatically lowered wealth inequality while dramatically raising wages,
On the surface this looks good, but that would be with a Western view of what earned wages could buy. Even with money there was limited food to buy for decades at a time during the Soviet Union. Further, you couldn’t just do something like go a buy a car. You had to get on a wait list for years to even have an option to buy one.
Hexbear aren’t unique in general support for the Soviet Union, the overwhelming majority of Marxists see it as far better than Tsarist Russia and the modern Russian Federation.
Better than the final Tsar or Putin, probably, but those are both really low bars to gauge a win by.
I’m not saying everything about the Soviet Union was bad, but holding it up as an example to aspire to would be rejected by most folks that would be forced to live that life (or die an early death under its heel as a consequence of actions of the state). Do the Marxists you’re referring to really pine to live in 1940s or 1950s Soviet Union?
A bit dishonest to point to the drops in life expectancy and the general 1940s and 1950s period without mentioning World War II, where the Nazis waged a war of extermination and genocide on those they considered genetically inferior, don’t you think? Same with comparing a highly developed country that saw no land fighting in World War II to the country devastated the most by it that was a feudal backwater only a couple decades prior when it comes to infant mortality. The bit on literacy is also misleading, the vast majority of all SSRs pre-Socialism were illiterate.
Outside of curiously leaving out World War 2 and the massive devastation it brought (80% of combat in World War 2 was on the Eastern Front), as well as comparing directly to the United States that never saw the same destruction and started the century several laps ahead, your only real criticism was a lack of consumer goods. This is true, light industry was lacking and being closed off from the Global Economy was indeed a contributing factor to its dissolution, but you could have pointed to that honestly.
No, most Marxists don’t want to go back in time to the first Socialist state, they would rather learn from what worked and what didn’t and be part of building a Communist future.
A bit dishonest to point to the drops in life expectancy and the general 1940s and 1950s period without mentioning World War II, where the Nazis waged a war of extermination and genocide on those they considered genetically inferior, don’t you think?
No I don’t think so. For one reason part of the massive losses were Soviet Military tactics of meatwaves (which Russia still uses today) during WWII. For another, the Holomodor was an extra 10 million citizens of the USSR starved to death that occurred long before WWII when Stalin took all the grain from the people that grew it and let them starve to death. Starving your farmers to death is a monumentally stupid decision for a nation that struggles with food supply. This is the hypocrisy of Soviet Communism. Marx and Engels wrote about empowering the masses, equality in everything, and society without class or station. Yet the USSR was anything but that. History shows that the actions of the state saw massive numbers of dead citizens as a means to an end in both war and peace. Trotsky himself was a victim of the Stalin’s USSR. Famous and brilliant Soviet orbital rocket designer Sergei Korolev, was another victim dying from complications from living in gulag. Do you think Marx and Engels would have seen their ideas at work in the Soviet Union?
Same with comparing a highly developed country that saw no land fighting in World War II to the country devastated the most by it that was a feudal backwater only a couple decades prior when it comes to infant mortality.
The infant mortality was more than double the USA every year for the entire existence of the USSR. Or are you claiming WWII was still to blame for the higher infant mortality 45 years after Hitler ate a bullet ending war in the European theater?
No, most Marxists don’t want to go back in time to the first Socialist state, they would rather learn from what worked and what didn’t and be part of building a Communist future.
Is there consensus in the Marxist community about any nation today practicing this Communism 2.0 or is it all just political theory at this point?
haha love that
Okay, that is legit hilarious and makes so much sense in retrospect.
What does the Y axis represent here?
It’s a reference to horseshoe theory with the addition of the left wing where it’s actually democratic as opposed to communism authoritarianism which can resemble fascist authoritarianism in a war economy.
“tankies” (aka Marxist-leninists) fully believe in Democracy - they just reject the idea that neoliberal two party American democracy is the be all and end all.
For some reason they are more pro Russian suppression state, Chinese one-party censorship state and even apologise for DPRK. It’s pretty tall order to call any of those democratic. Then from my discussion with tankies they often advocate for an armed revolution which are very undemocratic in their nature and often lead to one-party states or a military junta government.
Marxist-Leninism is a democratic ideology but the way tankies talk doesn’t sound very democratic to me.
For some reason they are more pro Russian suppression state
They really aren’t. I keep seeing .worlders assert this but I’ve never seen it there. China and DPRK yes, but not Russia. (I also do consider China to be at least as democratic as western countries, not so much Korea, but I don’t mind hearing opposing views.)
Is it the way tankies talk that make it sound not democratic to you? Or it the biases you went in with?
Why would supposed right-wingers be holding Leftist theory reading groups, hosting mutual aid comms, donating to Palestinian gofundmes, and supporting trans rights to some of the highest degrees on the fediverse? Irony? Seems like a silly hypothesis.
posted from lemmy.ml
I don’t see how that discounts anything, why would right wingers create a relatively isolated community to read Marxist and Anarchist theory, protect and advocate for trans rights, and frequently pin donation threads for Palestinians? Seems like way too much effort to be ironic, and defederating from other instances would hurt their supposed goal of “trolling.”
You’re forgetting that Hexbear and lemmy.ml tend to support Russia and the CCP, both authoritarian dictatorships with Russia being openly Fascist. This is because of the general “America bad” viewpoint on these instances.
While the US has its… problems, that doesn’t mean their geopolitical rivals are then magically all-benevolent. Multiple sides in conflict can be shitty, and ignoring the genocides that Russia and China have been committing over the past few years is unacceptable.
hosting mutual aid comms
I’ve seen those posts (I have no filter)… “I need money for rent” 🦗 🦗 🦗
I like horseshoe theory. Basically far-left and far-right come to be same extremistic pieces of shit that are more alike than not, e.g. Hitler(right) and Stalin(left).
The left-right spectrum itself just isn’t a useful model, but the mere existence of anarchists contradicts horseshoe theory.
Judging by the dislikes in my previous post, my point did not get across, but whatever…
You can be a dictator on either spectrum. And if you’re a dictator, at that point you dont care for any left or right leaning values… Today it seems its easier to become one (a dictator) going right, since these folk are by nature more guilable…
If you consider your self a liberal and you think thats far-left (what republicans for example like to paint their opponents), you’re an idiot. Also those that think they’re marxists or whatever, you’re even bigger idiot, enjoying your materialistic ps5 and 4090 dreaming of a communism… oh the irony
And about anarchists, some people just want to see world burn… or profit in a lawless society
And if you’re a dictator, at that point you dont care for any left or right leaning values…
But this just evidently isn’t true. Take the fascist dictators like ᴉuᴉlossnW and Hitler, who clearly believed in their ultranationalism, irredentism, anti-communism, anti-liberalism, militarism, etc. etc. until the days they died (ᴉuᴉlossnW even created a last testament while captured shortly before death re-iterating all their beliefs despite their lost of dictatorship). Then take socialist-party dictators like Castro, Stalin and Mao, who, despite any and all critiques and shortcomings and hypocrisies and failures, intentionally took actions with measurable results to improve living conditions, health and literacy for the worker class as a whole, while limiting and even oppressing the owner class (bourgeoisie). If you already checked out that video in my last reply then we’d know ‘left leaning values’ can mean a heap of different things in different contexts, but I believe that these progressive and anti-capitalist efforts are solid examples to prove the point.
Also those that think they’re marxists or whatever, you’re even bigger idiot, enjoying your materialistic ps5 and 4090 dreaming of a communism… oh the irony
I don’t have either of those, but I can’t understand why there would be any irony or contradiction there, at all. Marxism isn’t an anti-technology or anti-fun lifestyle or some religious glorification of poverty. At its core, it’s an analysis of society which (long-story-short) concludes capitalism is an exploitative system and socialism is an alternative economic system where the worker class, as opposed to an owner class, control the tools and resources of production. There’s far more depth than that, but how much time or money someone has doesn’t (directly!) come into that analysis. The famous rallying cry in the Manifesto of the Communist Party (1848) is “Workers of the World, Unite!”, and those workers rich enough to afford luxuries are still workers with shared class interest with other workers. You don’t need to be committing crimes against labor to reach that level, they’re not buying factories, commissioning mega-yachts and flying to space.
And about anarchists, some people just want to see world burn… or profit in a lawless society
I’m talking about the political philosophy and movement, anarchism. Most of them want to abolish the concept of profit whatsoever, and they make up a major part of the environmental and social justice movements. There’s plenty of critiques of their movement, but they really only want to burn down the state which exploits us.
Hexbear, lemmygrad.ml and lemmy.ml are the “Tankie Triad”.
Hexbear is the worst most extreme of them and lemmy.ml is the least which is why they’ve managed to avoid getting defederated from world (either that or because they’re like the third largest instance behind only .world and SJW)
Hexbear is pretty widely defederated
A lot of .ml users and communities are there just because it was the only big instance much earlier on. I’m in no way a tankie but still use .ml a lot (a community I run is on there) because it was the first one I made and i’m too lazy to look into new instances or switch.
I would block hexbear. I’ve done it server-wide. They are mostly very loud trolls pretending to be communists. Some could be actual communists, but I don’t buy anyone actually wanting to be in such a toxic environment and believe what they claim to believe.
They’re “communist” if you believe that supporting the CCP is “communist” and that the usa is “capitalist”. It’s all just political tribalism to them, that’s why they are also anti-Liberal and at times very anti-Democracy. The actual definitions of any of these political identities is completely lost on them, all of these words only mean west or east to them.
deleted by creator
User blocking also doesn’t block votes so they’ll also still influence your feed.
Hexbear, together with Lemmygrad and Lemmy.ml are left wing, communist instances here on Lemmy.
A lot of (new) users of Lemmy have very strong - as in negative - feelings about them because of their ideas. Which to me makes sense because a lot of these users tend to be more centrist in their views and have never read Marxist literature before.
I will be honest with you and tell you my experience: they can be dickish and straight up trollish in their behavior, but not anymore than your average online trolls. The actual main reason people dislike them, is because they stick together and sometimes “brigade” post which nominates them and talk shit about them.
I personally was on the receiving end of their trolling when I first joined Lemmy too. But among the trolls, there were also very nice users who gave me friendly replies. And I had great conversations with them.
Eventually I even decided to open an alt account in one of those instances to learn more about their views and engage with them on their political knowledge. I really enjoy learning from them and having open conversations about politics with them. Even when sometimes I see their more extreme opinions, I still try to always be open minded at first. More often than not, I will learn that something I used to think on a subject, was the result of historical misconceptions or straight up propaganda. That is not to say that they can’t be wrong of course. But it pays off to be receptive about new points of view.
There are some elements that can be considered extreme, especially to someone from the general public who has never engaged in political conversations with someone who is very much to the left. It takes a little adjustment if you want to try and engage because so much of the media and literature we consume reinforce our views on the system while they specifically try to be critical of it.
Bur FOR SURE you will never see that instance be racist or bigoted. I have lost counts how many times I’ve seen that in other instances, but with them, you know exactly where they stand on that. As in, they do NOT tolerate that.
Tldr: Hexbear (with Lemmygrad and Lemmy.ml) are openly communist instances on Lemmy. They are very vocals because they have a large userbase. They can be trolls that stick together sometimes. If you are politically interested/involved, I instead recommend joining one of their instances to see for yourself.
Edit: you can also tell how much people here have a negative feeling about those instances by the reactions in this post. Everything remotely critical is upvoted, while anything that even hints a positive opinion of them, will be downvoted. And then more and more users will start downvoting without even reading the comments. And they will start attacking users because they disagree and feel the need to attack them because “that instance bad”…in a way not too dissimilar from the brigading I mentioned before for some of the users from those instances. Showing you a real life example of how there are extreme users in every online community
I think this is probably the fairest description. Hexbearians are dickish trolls sometimes. Unfortunately, because Hexbear was the biggest Lemmy instance for the longest time, a lot of communities found this initially overwhelming, plus the big jump in political perspective is too jarring and can seem nonsensical.
But I believe anyone who takes a moment to engage in good faith with the cool users, and ignore the trollish ones, will see you can have constructive, interesting and caring discussions and realise what the attraction of the community is.
Sorry this is not true. They are very aggressive and attack every viewpoint harshly when it disagrees with their very radical beliefs. The reason instances ban them is they are not here for the conversation. Nothing good comes from that community, only confrontation.
Sorry this is not true.
It is true. That’s MY experience with them
They are very aggressive and attack every viewpoint harshly
And? I do too when I’m heated about a topic. If your viewpoint is to defend fascism, why not attack it? And I’m not talking specifically about you here. But if we’re debating, I expect someone to bring a good debate.
The reason instances ban them is they are not here for the conversation
Sorry this is not true.
And I already gave my explanation as to why in my original comment.
Nothing good comes from that community, only confrontation
So just like your comment? Lol jokes aside, I already addressed everything you said before. But I’m happy you were able to disagree and get it out of your system. I’ve noticed a lot of Lemmy users have this weird obsession with those instances, when in reality they are just instances. They have both shitty and normal users. It’s always more nuanced than that.
Just cleaning up after your whitewashing. Good try though. Their community is just a bunch of trolls like you said. I’m glad the instance I use block overtly toxic ones.
Just cleaning up after your whitewashing
What crimes exactly has any of those communities committed? I must have missed those posts.
Also…I admitted some views can be extreme/incorrect. I never said they are the perfect instance. None is. And that’s not how you use that term by the way, my friend
Their community is just a bunch of trolls like you said
That’s not what I said :) you are very obviously misquoting my comments
I’m glad the instance I use block overtly toxic ones
Neat. Good for you then, that’s the beauty of the fediverse
The amount of pride these people take in their ignorance is astounding… anything that conflicts with their worldview, well it must be fake and you must be lying!!
Note to OP: probably not best to take advice on a topic from people that, in having explicitly blocked that topic from their feeds, have sheltered themselves from it in its entirety and aren’t going to have in-depth knowledge aside from their own worst experience with it or some rumor they heard of someone else’s experience.
You ever see the episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation where the Enterprise is about to get ripped apart by an energy wave that responds more and more violently the more power they put into their shields?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_Worship_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)
There’s an analogy for your disparate experiences in the context of your dickish attitude.
I’m sorry if I sound tone deaf I am new to Lemmy .~.
Howdy! Can confirm that most people and places I’ve seen on the Fediverse are lovely… Except Hexbear. They’re one wall of cognitive dissonance away from being right wingers and constantly complaining that liberals are all lying to themselves about their liberalism. That THEY are the TRUE left wingers.
Weird, because I find them also lovely.
You likely have never been a target of their vitriol. Consider yourself lucky.
Holy shit the sea of strawmen in this thread is insane.
I asked hexbear to see how they think in exchange
For people curious, it’s not as bad as it is portrayed and I believe the disdain is only in place because of their overwhelming support of China and USSR
That’s a very accurate assessment. Even on hexbear there’s contentious debate regarding China and Soviet Russia.
Why don’t you asked them yourself? [email protected]
Probably a bad idea to ask about a Marxist instance on a .world community, since .world is known to be quite biased against Marxism.
Or at the very least @kaprap, make a similar thread in [email protected], it’ll give them a chance to speak for themselves.
And you don’t think marxists have a Marxist bias?
OP has the opinions of the non-Marxists already by asking here, on an instance defederated from most of the Marxists. May as well ask the Marxists what they think too.
I’ve frequently noted that you tend to get a very one sided answer when you ask, for instance, Mormons about Mormonism. Likewise, I wouldn’t expect a balanced and fair assessment of hexbear by asking hexbear mods and users.
The opposite is true, when you only ask people not federated with Hexbear you get equally imbalanced opinions. OP already did that, may as well ask on Hexbear as well to get the other side of the story.
Hexbear removes any questions or opinions they don’t agree with. They heavily censor the discussion and consider it a feature of their community.
Other Lemmy servers allow a diversity of thought and opinion. They allow people to question and disagree.
It’s not about sides of the story, it’s the difference between free discussion of individuals versus a standardized party line that cannot be questioned. The former tends to expose the truth, while the latter tends to obfuscate the truth.
Lemmy.world doesn’t allow any opinions from Hexbear, they defederated from them. That is more censorship, though less obvious because you don’t see the comments getting removed. Even then, comments still get removed for going against the “party line” as well, usually comments critiquing the Democrats.
What’s more correct is that Hexbear is more open and up front with its bias, while instances like Lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works try to pretend that they don’t hold bias.
That’s completely incorrect, there are hundreds of hexbear users commenting on this thread right now, using the alt accounts which they are allowed to make here. Or am I expected to believe that the 400 comments on this thread were simply normal Lemmy users who felt like defending hexbear? Give me a break.
Any hexbear account (or federated account) that expresses a disallowed opinion quickly gets banned and the comments purged, so that hexbears can maintain their echo chamber. What an absurd argument, claiming that defederation is in any way comparable to active censorship of content. You don’t even get to see the comments that get removed on hexbear because they purge them, leaving no trace. No comment removed by mod, nothing in the modlog.
Don’t fucking equate my instance to hexbear, I can see right through you, charlatan. You can run and hide from the truth all you like, but it will come for you eventually.
Do you think every user that likes Hexbear is a Hexbear user? Moreover, full defederation is the greatest act of censorship. I’m not equating sh.itjust.works to Hexbear, I generally have better experiences and run into far less bigotry on Hexbear. Your edgy monologue was funny, though, lol.
Not every single one, just the vast majority.
Moreover, full defederation is the greatest act of censorship.
How so, comrade? Explain to me how defederating a violent and hateful server is more of an act of censorship than… literal, by the book censorship.
You are a hexbear user, so it’d make sense that you have a better experience within your cult than outside it. Hexbear is more bigoted than any other Lemmy server, by a wide margin.
Bias you say? ROFL!
If you said this exact same thing in a community hosted on Hexbear or .ml, about Hexbear or .ml, it would be deleted, and you would be banned- 1st offense.
Don’t believe me? Check the mod logs. The admins there have banned people for far less.
The fact that your comment is allowed and you’re free to express it already belies your entire argument
Huh. Interesting that everyone not federated with Hexbear would have a imbalanced/negative opinion of them, wouldn’t you say? Why do you suppose that might be?
Note: being on Lemmy for about a year, I didn’t live through the early days of this place. Here’s what I can recollect, as neutrally given as possible.
TL;DR The recent conflicts between two politically different groups on Lemmy have radicalized many people, and many Hexbear residents in particular. Unless you are to discuss the far-left ideas and are very radical about disadvantaged groups, you are safe to block it.
Hexbear is a far-left (as in actually communist) anti-discrimination community, initially more of a safe haven to promote equality and foster a healthy and welcoming place for leftists to come together.
With core developers of Lemmy also being far-left, Hexbear naturally fitted the landscape along with the official Lemmy.ml, heavy far-left Lemmygrad.ml and others.
As time went on, however, all sorts of left-leaning and apolitical folks, not just far-left, came to the platform, filling other instances like Lemmy.world (now the most populated of them all), sh.itjust.works and many others.
As a result, Lemmy has two groups of people with radically different political views: one is a group of more or less organized far-left, and the other is everyone else, most commonly liberals. This distinction has caused a lot of conflicts and heated discussions based on political adherence.
Most notable case is latest US elections. The far left side generally called not to vote Democrat as Biden has failed to deliver on many of his promises and empowered Israel to commit war crimes in Palestine, while the liberal audience called to vote Democrat to not let Republicans take the lead, which may arguably lead to an even worse outcome than unaccountable Dems can make.
This divide has raised a lot of mutual hostility, brigading, and uncivil behavior, which has radicalized many on both sides of the conflict, the consequences of which you have got to experience.
What to do with that is up to you to decide. Hexbear is very politically uniform and very political overall, so if you’re not here to discuss communism, you won’t lose much and will gain additional peace of mind.
This is by far the best and most informative answer. The only thing it’s missing as another couple commenters pointed out is hexbear is all about their oversized memes and emojis, making anytime you happen upon one of their posts extremely conspicuous (even if politics aren’t being discussed).
The oversized emoji bug was fixed, by the way. They display normally now on other instances.
Also Hexbear and Lemmygrad were populated by r/chapotraphouse and r/GenZedong users respectively when those subreddits got banned, which happened before the main Reddit exodus that populated instances like .world
I’m being a little pedantic here, but “far left (as in actually communist)” wasn’t a thing until these recent online debates and forming groups started putting labels on groups and putting them into boxes. Communists are not necessarily left, nor far left. It feels a bit weird to ‘put’ them anywhere. That said, I know nothing about hexbear or this little group on Lemmy and how they identify…
It is unclear what this excerpt is meant to demonstrate.
By default, the terms “left” and “right” are describing the level of economic equality/freedom in a given society. The left call for economic equality and redistribution of resources, either through peaceful cooperation and abundance or through heavy state intervention, the right stands for private property above equality and freedom to act in personal financial interest.
Communists hold economic equality as paramount and vital for society, and put it above all else; in a perfect communist world, everyone always has access to everything that is available in an economy, and as such, there is no money (you can already take anything you need) and no point to privatize anything as there’s no revenue to speak of.
Thereby, communism is far left.
What do you believe “leftism” means? I can’t see a world where an ideology based on public ownership, collectivization, and working class liberation could be seen not as left.
A label, in all honesty. Historically they’re not left nor right nor middle. They can have ideologies of many, but too long to get into here. I was being pedantic because it’s a slight bug of mine when they are labelled and boxed like that. For example Nikolai Bukharin and Alexei Rykov (Bukharinists) and others like Joseph Stalin were not considered left but were communist.
Bukharin was considered “right” from the standpoint of a far-left ideology, as a point of comparison to the standard party line. That’s like saying -5 is a positive number because it is closer to positive numbers than -10.
Hexbear, lemmygrad and (in great part) lemmy.ml are tankie instances.
They basically deny any crimes of Stalin, Mao etc…
I mean Mao greatly regretted his plans and was very sad they didnt work, he went onto become a vegan and grow his own food as to not get the food meant for the workers
Responsible for estimated 40 million deaths on the low end.
“Oopsie, my b.”
All is forgiven.
Life expectancy doubled under Mao.
Life expectancy tanked from 40s to the 30s under Mao in 1960 because of the famine. It went back up because Mao took a step back from governing and moderates introduced economic reforms to save the economy that Mao hated by the way and life expectancy shot up.
If I kick someone in the teeth then a dentist gives them implants, they technically have a better smile because of me. Are they gonna give me credit for it? Doubtful. Likewise, don’t give Mao credit for someone else fixing a mess he created.
Mao introduced some terrible measures, for sure, but it’s a long shot to say he’s “Responsible for” every death or imply it was at all deliberate. Famines in China were more widespread and frequent pre-Mao.
It shows he tried his best and was sad when he failed, he cared for his people
Mao played a personal role in organising the mass repressions and established a system of execution quotas,[175] which were often exceeded.[165] He defended these killings as necessary for the securing of power.[176]
You ever love a group of people so much you personally set an execution quota on them?
So all hitler had to do was say he regretted his plans and all would be fine?
Hitler killed them on purpose
so did Mao, see this comment
You either block them and die a liberal or you engage and observe and live long enough to start spreading their agitprop and using your new pronoun “comrade” as you lead the way to glorious revolution.
(Seriously though, they’re just people on a leftist political instance. You’ll get the good, bad, and weird, same as any other place).
They mandate trigger warnings for pictures of cheese.
Base line Lemmy has a left skew. Hexbear people are the basis for probably a quarter of conservatives talking points.
Hexbear users will bully you to hell the very second you say something they disagree with. In my case, I said South Park is a funny show. They also think Putin is a good guy and at the same time they pretend 90% of their users are trans. Basically it’s a bunch of douche kids playing revolutionaries and intimating anyone they disagree with. My 2 cents.
Cis man declares himself the arbiter of trans-ness, only trans people who agree with him politically are valid. (He’s an ally okay, don’t point out his rampant transphobia or he gets pissy)
Yerbouti is a thin-skinned french canadian who is still bitter to this day that he went to a chapo show and they made fun of french canadians.
I’ve never seen anybody on hexbear say Putin is a good guy. And it seems pretty transphobic to say that they’re just pretending to be trans.
I’ve never seen anybody on hexbear say Putin is a good guy
Well I’ve seen a lot of user refusing to say he’s a authoritarian dictator so it’s basically saying he’s a good guy.
The same thing goes with refusing to vote Harris: that was basically saying you don’t mind letting Epstein’s closest friend rule the country because you don’t want to vote for a “lib”. Good job.
And again, I didn’t say people are pretending to be trans, I said I don’t trust Internet polls, especially anything that mones from hexbear. It seem hard to understand for you, but it’s not the same.
Now here’s my question: are you trans yourself? Because if you’re not, that would be incredibly transphobic and discriminating from you to pretend you can speak in the name of a minority group. Please reassure me.
Look man, if you’re just going to engage in this kind of wildly bad faith behavior, I really don’t see any point in continuing to engage.
I agree that this is not going anywhere But I’m not speaking in bad faith, I’m sharing observations from interactions I had with Hexbear users. Maybe you should ask yourself why, on a left-leaning website like Lemmy, almost all the instances have chosen to dissociate from Hexbear. Maybe if you believe everyone around you sucks, you’re the one that does.
Also, why can you just answer my last question? It’s a fair question since every god damn time the hexbear subject is brought, people like you call tranpshobic anyone who dares to criticize it. I will give you much more credibility on the subject if being trans is your reality. BTW, why would you call me “man”? Bold of you to assume that I’m a man.
🙄
Lots of accusations but can’t answer questions.
I love going there and bullying them. Its my fav pass time when they had enough they just delete all my post cause they are malding! They also like to call it their platform which I always correct them on …
To be clear, your posts are largely removed not just from Hexbear but other instances for rampant misogyny and general manosphere talking points, as well as getting into constant fights with other users.
Thank you for your interest in me.
A community of adherents of a political ideology which is fringe and marginal, and at the same time responsible for Trump’s victory. Very dangerous individuals.
“By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”
Were the communists responsible for Hitler’s electoral victory? Asking for a friend.
Didnt you hear about the fire in the Reichstag???
Seems this post is being brigaded by hexbear alts fyi
Here’s my take…
They’re more cohesive and insular than most groups you’ll find on social media.
They’ve brewed their own strongly held culture and ideology.
Many are also used to being ostracised by other communities due to sexual preferences or other personal attributes.
The result is, if you naively post in a thread in which they are active your opinion will get stomped on if it does not directly align with theirs.
Many are also used to being ostracised by other communities due to sexual preferences or other personal attributes.
Based on their polling, most are trans and based on reading their posts for the last year, most are sick of the rampant transphobia on pretty much every social media platform, including on lemmy
You’ll find a good amount of transphobia on this post too, proving them correct. One user is directly attacking trans users by claiming that the trans user is “faking it” and attacked another user by defending chasers, calling chasers “allies.”
It’s really everywhere for those with the eyes to see.
Absolutely, and despite reporting many of them they seem to stay up.
