• CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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      3 months ago

      Should I pick a European hard-left party and post it’s actual seat count, or is that irrelevant to the point you’re trying to make?

      • x00za@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        3 months ago

        Are you saying only a few people want health care and social safety nets? And that everybody wants companies to be more important than people?

        • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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          3 months ago

          Ah, by “socialism” you mean, like, Norway. On Lemmy people usually mean the USSR when they say that. I think OP meant socialist like the USSR.

          Most of the Volt platforms I’ve looked at are pretty pro-welfare.

          • x00za@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            3 months ago

            Norway? You think it’s only one or a few countries?

            The UK, Australia, almost every European country. All of them have a lot of structures made possible by socialism. Even America has some socialist constructs.

            I think you might be thinking of “communism” which nowadays means the opposite. Like how neither Russia or China are actually communist. Both have an authoritarian state and lots of capitalism, with a tiny bit of socialism.

            • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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              3 months ago

              I mean, the actual historical definition of socialism is “collective ownership of the means of production”, and the actual historical definition of communism is “a classless, stateless society that will inevitably follow capitalism, according to Marx”. The USSR only ever claimed to be working towards communism, and referred to themselves as “socialist”.

              Nowadays the words can mean something different, depending on who uses them.

              • x00za@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                3 months ago

                Well yes, but you misjudged what I said as I used the correct terms.

                So my point is again, there are many people that believe in socialist constructs, and are therefor partly socialist.

                • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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                  3 months ago

                  If you mean you were using the historical definitions, a social safety net is not a means of production. Government-run factories or mines would be socialist, although some purists insist that it’s not socialist until there’s no private ownership left at all.

                  If you mean you were using the popular definitions, sure, people like government services. Volt also likes government services.

                  • x00za@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    3 months ago

                    Services fall under “Means of production”. So yes, these safety nets are part of socialism. Taxes going back to the people as well.

                    I don’t want to try and figure out the perfect semantics for all of this.