Why? France has it’s history with opposing monarchy&church. You can instead argue why their cover bombing of all religions with such a ban targets muslims first, as it makes it smell too right-wing and anti-immigrant, but then we’d miss the fact that most religions nowadays don’t mandate such strict gendered clothing, and minorities like orthodoxal christians would not be allowed to wear them as well.
That piece of cloth, just like a flag, holds a significant message, there - of religious, social and political nature. It’s not a random article of clothing, and you know that. It’s the message promoting Islam and it’s policies, just like a big cross could’ve been for Christianity, or a shoulder badge for some political party, but even more visible.
It normalizes the perception of women as slaves without agency. And it’s not right to let them bring it to the world stage in a country that says it promotes equality. If it’s not okay for them, they can just not participate in that. Is it that hard?
We cheered women in Iran who protested against murders over hijab laws, afghanistani women who lost their right for education and business, but then we walk back and support a shit-eating privileged egyptian girl that can wear either a hijab or bikini because she’s not in Egypt and is obviously not an average woman.
This is just silliness. What exactly will change regarding Islam if France lets Muslim Olympians wear hijabs? Do you think this will start some sort of glorious revolution where women across the Islamic world free themselves from the shackles of oppression?
This is the Olympics. Also, this will piss plenty of women off too.
This should establish zero publicity for the states that disallow women from wearing what they want, and these states want that publicity to normalize it. They’d either disagree and drop out or agree and proceed with their sportwomen being uncovered. I don’t suppose it would cause anything, but if cardassianistanian naked girl would win or participate in olympics, I feel like it would pepper the relations in Cardassianistan itself.
I know there’s a discussion on the junction of feminist and muslim thougths, and I’ve read a lot of good articles on that matter, but I have an excuse for a (bigoted?) myself there because the olympics don’t invade their culture and don’t set their rules where these women live. Instead, these worldwide competitions gate them. And it’s on these women if they want to enter, and if they want to ignore the no-hijab rule.
That’s a narrow line and the core to this discourse, I believe.
From your initial standpoint (as I’ve read it, you can shit me) we punish many women from a country A over arbitrary clothing reqs.
From my standpoint we punish the state first, because it can’t get the international status it really wants while limiting their women themselves.
And I’m not with the Olympic Comittee, but I feel like making such a gating requirement may make a state rethink their policies or make an exclusion, without the whole Olympic community making an exclusion just for them.
.
Participating in Olympics is a status thing, a priviledge for a state, that’s why many want to join the club and even show they are capable of bringing these games home. That’s why Hitler’s Germany held them in 1936 and Soviets held them in 1980. That’s why today’s pariah states still participate in it under sn empry banner. Cockblocking a state from that harms select participants but it’s more of a reputational damage to the state that couldn’t fit this requirement, or a drug one, or something else.
ed: either way, it’s my longest debate since reddit and you are a good party to have one with
And I’m saying if that’s the case, bar them from competing entirely until they allow women to compete without a hijab. Because, again, otherwise you’re only punishing the women. Which would also discourage other women from athletic competition since they know that the men will never be punished for these sorts of things.
Also, don’t you think women on those teams should be given the choice rather than be forced to either wear them or not wear them?
Were France to ban maga hats or yellow socks, it’d be dumb. Especially so if one of the many religions in the world worship it.
But that ‘piece of cloth’ stinks of human rights abuses, of inequality, of subjugation, of torture, of murder. The victims of forced hijab lack the agency to refuse and the knowledge as to why they can.
I don’t know whether I’d ban it too, but I accept them doing so for reasons that matter to them.
A distinction without a difference. They could have not banned it before, they could reverse the ban now.
Either way, it’s a piece of cloth they’re banning.
Why? France has it’s history with opposing monarchy&church. You can instead argue why their cover bombing of all religions with such a ban targets muslims first, as it makes it smell too right-wing and anti-immigrant, but then we’d miss the fact that most religions nowadays don’t mandate such strict gendered clothing, and minorities like orthodoxal christians would not be allowed to wear them as well.
That piece of cloth, just like a flag, holds a significant message, there - of religious, social and political nature. It’s not a random article of clothing, and you know that. It’s the message promoting Islam and it’s policies, just like a big cross could’ve been for Christianity, or a shoulder badge for some political party, but even more visible.
It normalizes the perception of women as slaves without agency. And it’s not right to let them bring it to the world stage in a country that says it promotes equality. If it’s not okay for them, they can just not participate in that. Is it that hard?
We cheered women in Iran who protested against murders over hijab laws, afghanistani women who lost their right for education and business, but then we walk back and support a shit-eating privileged egyptian girl that can wear either a hijab or bikini because she’s not in Egypt and is obviously not an average woman.
This is just silliness. What exactly will change regarding Islam if France lets Muslim Olympians wear hijabs? Do you think this will start some sort of glorious revolution where women across the Islamic world free themselves from the shackles of oppression?
This is the Olympics. Also, this will piss plenty of women off too.
Na-ah.
This should establish zero publicity for the states that disallow women from wearing what they want, and these states want that publicity to normalize it. They’d either disagree and drop out or agree and proceed with their sportwomen being uncovered. I don’t suppose it would cause anything, but if cardassianistanian naked girl would win or participate in olympics, I feel like it would pepper the relations in Cardassianistan itself.
I know there’s a discussion on the junction of feminist and muslim thougths, and I’ve read a lot of good articles on that matter, but I have an excuse for a (bigoted?) myself there because the olympics don’t invade their culture and don’t set their rules where these women live. Instead, these worldwide competitions gate them. And it’s on these women if they want to enter, and if they want to ignore the no-hijab rule.
Then don’t let them compete at all.
They are gated from competing because they have a religious insignia over their head, right?
No, I mean don’t let the country compete at all.
Because otherwise it sounds to me like some women are being punished. And that doesn’t exactly scream feminism to me.
That’s a narrow line and the core to this discourse, I believe.
From your initial standpoint (as I’ve read it, you can shit me) we punish many women from a country A over arbitrary clothing reqs.
From my standpoint we punish the state first, because it can’t get the international status it really wants while limiting their women themselves.
And I’m not with the Olympic Comittee, but I feel like making such a gating requirement may make a state rethink their policies or make an exclusion, without the whole Olympic community making an exclusion just for them.
.
Participating in Olympics is a status thing, a priviledge for a state, that’s why many want to join the club and even show they are capable of bringing these games home. That’s why Hitler’s Germany held them in 1936 and Soviets held them in 1980. That’s why today’s pariah states still participate in it under sn empry banner. Cockblocking a state from that harms select participants but it’s more of a reputational damage to the state that couldn’t fit this requirement, or a drug one, or something else.
ed: either way, it’s my longest debate since reddit and you are a good party to have one with
And I’m saying if that’s the case, bar them from competing entirely until they allow women to compete without a hijab. Because, again, otherwise you’re only punishing the women. Which would also discourage other women from athletic competition since they know that the men will never be punished for these sorts of things.
Also, don’t you think women on those teams should be given the choice rather than be forced to either wear them or not wear them?
Which means Egypt is in the clear.
LOOK AT THE EGYPTIAN FENCER FOR FUCK’S SAKE WHY ARE PEOPLE SO FUCKING IGNORANT?
I’m disagreeing with you.
Were France to ban maga hats or yellow socks, it’d be dumb. Especially so if one of the many religions in the world worship it.
But that ‘piece of cloth’ stinks of human rights abuses, of inequality, of subjugation, of torture, of murder. The victims of forced hijab lack the agency to refuse and the knowledge as to why they can.
I don’t know whether I’d ban it too, but I accept them doing so for reasons that matter to them.