• Supervisor194@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    168
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    We have a dramatic shortage of residential property. We have a dramatic oversupply of commercial property. IF ONLY THERE WAS A SOLUTION

    • SuperDuper@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      75
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      IF ONLY THERE WAS A SOLUTION

      Middle managers: I agree. From now on you’ll be required to be in office 4 days a week instead of 2!

    • TheHotze@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      1 year ago

      Unfortunately, in most cities that is illegal. Zoning laws prevent turning commercial property into residential even when it is possible. It also prevents developers from building moderate, high, and even certain types of low density housing.

        • FlowVoid@midwest.social
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Be careful what you wish for. Houston is notorious for abolishing its zoning laws, which means that residential and commercial properties are haphazardly scattered rather than concentrated into distinct areas.

          People never know when a CVS will pop up next door to their home. Now you know why they form HOAs.

    • player1@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      30
      arrow-down
      57
      ·
      1 year ago

      For the millionth time it’s not that simple. Retrofitting commercial buildings is often impossible or more expensive than just demolishing and building new which is also ungodly expensive especially with how high interest rates are right now. Unless cities step in with millions of dollars per project it’s usually not financially possible.

      • deft@ttrpg.network
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        34
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        If the problem is money then there is no problem. It becomes a necessity and you can’t just not afford necessity. We allegedly are the richest country they need to figure it out regardless of cost. That simple.

        It’s like climate change, there is no issue with money it just has to get done. Pay for it regardless of the cost. It is necessary

        • boreengreen@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          9
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          But what if we let the children pay for it when they grow up? Yes, the cost will be several orders of magnitude more, but we don’t have to think about that now.

          • ANGRY_MAPLE@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            I mean, hopefully fewer people from the future generation will be homeless. It’s pretty rough starting out now, especially if you aren’t lucky enough to have a wealthy family.

            What we’ve been doing for the last number of years just isn’t working. The solution isn’t to keep procrastinating it indefinitely. There has always been debt that’s pushed onto future generations, but this debt might actually help them.

            I wish that people started building more housing many years ago. If housing was cheaper, increased taxes wouldn’t be as big of a concern. This is because there would also be more money available to spend. This means spending money for food, transportation, schooling, and more.

            Instead, currently many people are using the limited housing as investments and retirement plans. Life expectancies are increasing, and births are still happening. Where do you propose people live if there isn’t housing available?

            Rural forests in uninhabited areas also aren’t a legitimate option for most people. No running water, no heat, no medical care available, no pharmacies, no stores, no places to work, and nowhere to buy tools to build shelter. That sounds like a very bad time for most people.

      • I_Fart_Glitter@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        19
        ·
        1 year ago

        I live on the North end of the SF Bay Area and literally every empty lot and a shit load of pasture land and open space is currently being developed into either low income apartments, high end apartments, town houses or track homes. It’s honestly kind of shocking. Everywhere you go, new residential development.

        Sonoma County supervisors were supposed to vote on a housing development plan in January, but failed to do so until August, and in the meantime there was a special rule that allowed builders to go ahead without most of the red tape they usually face. They took the opportunity and ran with it.

      • Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        20
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Retrofitting commercial buildings is often impossible or more expensive than just demolishing

        That sounds like a “them” problem.

        They can watch their investments dry up and lose billions, or pivot to the new market. Not our fault they’re stuck in the 80s.

        • Kalkaline @leminal.space
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          11
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          It’s more than that though, where do you bathe in an office?

          I’m not saying it can’t be done, but it’s a lot of work to redo the plumbing, electrical, install kitchens, and seal those spaces into secure private zones with natural light exposure.

        • inconel@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          What I hear is mostly water pipes. Commercial buildings have them concentrated in bathrooms and hard to split for each residence.

          I know there are bathroom less really cheap places but that attract type of people which property management/urban development corps dont want so they may also be reluctant for that change.

        • shutz@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Say you have an average size house, with a 2-car garage on the side. You decide to change that garage into a small apartment for renting. You need to add a wall or two, add insulation, build up a kitchen area (with proper water and power) and a bathroom.

          Imagine how much that would cost you for that single apartment. Now multiply that by, say, 50, to convert a large office building into 50 residential rental units. Even with economies of scale, that’s still going to cost millions…

        • player1@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Actually it’s not bullshit. Most office buildings are designed with large core space where the elevators and stairs etc go. That’s not at all how apartment buildings are designed. Changing that is extremely expensive.

    • tallwookie@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      37
      ·
      1 year ago

      if only there was a solution that wouldnt immediately destroy billions of dollars in commercial real estate.

      you have to remember that office space cant be easily converted into residential space. most standard office floors dont have more than two or maybe 3 restrooms. cant imagine that many people would be willing to share a public bathroom with their neighbors. you also cant just add a bunch of walls to the interior of office buildings (for individual apartments), the existing architecture wont take the strain. apartment buildings that collapse = lawsuits.

      you could try to retrofit existing commercial office space into residential space but you will fail.

      • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        36
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        Buildings not even built strong enough for multipurpose use. Ahh the “efficiency” of capitalism…

        Also, no one said it has to be rennovated to be exactly like normal apartments. Some mixedly shared living spaces exist in some entire cultures for crying out loud.

        • tallwookie@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          24
          ·
          1 year ago

          entire cultures that arent American. if you read the article, you’d note that it’s referring to US cities. non-american cultures arent even part of the conversation.

          • Gabu@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Because most non-US cultures didn’t decide to build their cities in the stupidest way possible.

            • tallwookie@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              yeah, they probably had really poorly designed cities early on as well. America is the most powerful country in the world but it’s also a very young nation.

              most non-US culture’s cities were repeatedly burned down, pillaged, suffered natural catastrophes like volcanos, tidal waves, earthquakes, and/or had their populations systematically zeroed out by waves of plague/disease/war. they’ve had hundreds, if not thousands of years to figure out a good city plan without modern construction material science.

              • Gabu@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                Brazil is as young as the US and, despite interference from the former, still managed just fine to build walkable cities. Japan too.

          • SmoothIsFast@citizensgaming.com
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            America is supposed to be a melting pot of different cultures, I think we can make it work and I’m sure those who are unhoused would much rather be able to live in a communal space with a roof and shower than nothing. Fuck corporate real estate profits and let the people live ffs

            • tallwookie@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              a certain percentage of the unhoused are in that position because they’re unwilling to follow the societal rules that the rest of us do. the human detritus festering on the streets of the Kensington neighborhood of Philadelphia is a most excellent example of what not to do.

      • Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        I’ll take an entire floor for the cost of one bachelor unit.

        If you think that’s not fair to the building owner, I agree, they made a bad investment.

        • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          That’s what I’m saying, convert them to ridiculously high end massive floor plan condos, we don’t need whole buildings of studios and 1br

      • dustyData@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        This might come as a shock to you but, human dignity doesn’t give a fuck about commercial real state value. Because commercial real estate owners don’t give a fuck about human dignity. So reciprocating the same level of care is fine for most.

        • tallwookie@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          love it or hate it, we exist in a capitalistic society. willfully ignoring that just borderline stupidity. “human dignity”? no one cares.

          • dustyData@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            You’re a bad person. I’m glad that you recognize that. It puts my moral judgment at ease to know that you’re perfectly aware that you are a bad person.

      • Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        if only there was a solution that wouldnt immediately destroy billions of dollars in commercial real estate.

        Please. Will somebody think of the poor poor investors?

        • tallwookie@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          i suppose if you’re just arguing on the internet just to pass the time, then probably no one will.

      • Redtitwhore@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        You may be correct but we need to think of solutions. Not just rely on conventional wisdom thats says it’s not possible by current standards

      • LrdThndr@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        most standard office floors dont have more than two or maybe 3 restrooms

        Oh no! Too bad they don’t sell common plumbing supplies at the Home Goddamned Depot.