• Varyk@sh.itjust.works
        14·
        16 days ago

        You are wrong.

        @[email protected] is definitively correct, as the UN and other anthropological experts agree.

        Palestinians have been and still are suffering a genocide at the hands of the Israeli military policy of the IDF and Netanyahu.

        The term genocide was assigned to the israeli-Palestinian “conflict” years ago by the UN as a progression of the Israeli apartheid system, and has been recently reaffirmed for those who were unsure (https://press.un.org/en/2024/gapal1473.doc.htm) since it’s more obvious since last year than ever that the Palestinian people and their culture are being deliberately erased from their homeland on ethnic, cultural and national bases.

        • cheese_greater@lemmy.worldOP
          61·
          16 days ago

          Neutral point here but what is the policy if a hypothetical tribe being genocided away was itself genocidal? How do you balance those interests in a humane, stablizing way?

          • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
            5·
            16 days ago

            entirely depends on the situation.

            the previous relevant comments refer not to a debate of policy, to be clear, simply a matter of fact.

            in the context of this thread, the answer to your first question is: you have two genocidal tribes.

            as for the second, I don’t have nearly enough information about your two theoretical tribes to offer an answer. how large are the two tribes? how are their genocides being perpetrated? why? where are the two tribes located, specifically and in relation to each other? are the two tribes related somehow? Why would you try to balance the interests of genocidal tribes instead of thwarting genocide? Why is it your responsibility to balance their interests? do you have the capability to balance their interests?

        • AndrewZabar@lemmy.worldEnglish
          110·
          14 days ago

          Wow so if I don’t accuse Israel of genocide, my comments get removed.

          I’m warning you all, you’re becoming the fascism you accuse those republican bastards of being.

          Censorship for not agreeing.

          Do yourselves a favor kids: if you hope to have a future, open a textbook and stop getting your reality from YouTube. Many of you literally have no idea what’s true anymore. Open some textbooks while they still are allowed to exist.

          Because now the extreme liberal are doing exactly the same as the extreme conservative.

          Mods: SHAME ON YOU.

          I’m replacing my comments because the forum doesn’t deserve them. I fully expect to be banned. That’s ok. I just hope some people see this and think for a moment.

          • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
            81·
            16 days ago

            “Believe what you want to.”

            facts and definitons aren’t based on belief.

            “There’s nothing that would change your view anyway.”

            evidence does.

            Israel is and has been extrajudicially killing Palestinian citizens for half a century, and especially now are specifically eradicating their ethnicity, culture, and nationality.

            Israel is trying to erase the Palestinian state according to the definition of genocide.

            “politics aren’t all about truth”

            this explains your confusion.

            you’re openly admitting that you’re using lies to spread a false narrative.

            I don’t see your end game, but it is a sensible admission.

              • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
                72·
                16 days ago

                “You’ve been duped and you don’t know it.”

                more vague fabrications?

                not as convincing as you hope.

                “I was referring to why you’ve been told lies by politicians.”

                my evidence is from credible news sources with long-term reliability, not politicians, which you put too much stock in.

                If you’re just learning that politicians don’t always tell the truth, you should avoid doling out political advice for a while.

                “You’re very much a victim of propaganda.”

                oh, more vague insults without any evidence?

                look at that.

                instead of making things up, try to address the points I’ve made.

                you know, the very clear definition of genocide being perpetrated by Israel, going back half a century?

                The actual relevant material in this thread.

                you can continue making stuff up and sounding clueless, but exposing your ignorance isn’t doing you any favors so far.

              • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
                62·
                16 days ago

                This is a genocide on an incarcerated population, within an Apartheid State, founded on Ethnic Cleansing, which is central to Zionism. Israel has no right to do any of those things. The only real solution is a regime change to a One-State Solution with equal rights for all Israelis and Palestinians.

                Ethnic Cleansing is fundamental to Zionism

                Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers.

                The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat.

                An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.

                Settlements and Occupation

                Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.

                This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice.

                The mass ethnic cleansing campaign of 1948:

                Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967:

                While the peace process was exploited to continue de-facto annexation of the West Bank via Settlements

                The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.

                The apartheid regime is based on organized, systemic violence against Palestinians, which is carried out by numerous agents: the government, the military, the Civil Administration, the Supreme Court, the Israel Police, the Israel Security Agency, the Israel Prison Service, the Israel Nature and Parks Authority, and others. Settlers are another item on this list, and the state incorporates their violence into its own official acts of violence. Settler violence sometimes precedes instances of official violence by Israeli authorities, and at other times is incorporated into them. Like state violence, settler violence is organized, institutionalized, well-equipped and implemented in order to achieve a defined strategic goal.

                Apartheid Evidence

                Amnesty Report

                Human Rights Watch Report

                B’TSelem Report with quick Explainer

                Visualizing the Ethnic Cleansing

                Peace Process and Solution

                Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution

                How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

                ‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

                One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

                Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.

                Historian Works on the History
      • Yantantethera@feddit.uk
        10·
        16 days ago

        When does one start counting the deaths of a genocide? Do we wait until the last member of a group of people has been killed?

        Dictionary Definitions from Oxford Languages

        genocide noun

        the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.

        Looks like exactly what is happening.

        • AndrewZabar@lemmy.worldEnglish
          214·
          14 days ago

          Wow so if I don’t accuse Israel of genocide, my comments get removed.

          I’m warning you all, you’re becoming the fascism you accuse those republican bastards of being.

          Censorship for not agreeing.

          Do yourselves a favor kids: if you hope to have a future, open a textbook and stop getting your reality from YouTube. Many of you literally have no idea what’s true anymore. Open some textbooks while they still are allowed to exist.

          Because now the extreme liberal are doing exactly the same as the extreme conservative.

          Mods: SHAME ON YOU.

          I’m replacing my comments because the forum doesn’t deserve them. I fully expect to be banned. That’s ok. I just hope some people see this and think for a moment.

      • Yantantethera@feddit.uk
        91·
        16 days ago

        “not a people”, oh that’s all right then, nothing to see here, please ignore the murder of tens of thousands of human beings, because, and I quote “they are not a people”.

        …give your head a wobble.

        • AndrewZabar@lemmy.worldEnglish
          110·
          14 days ago

          Wow so if I don’t accuse Israel of genocide, my comments get removed.

          I’m warning you all, you’re becoming the fascism you accuse those republican bastards of being.

          Censorship for not agreeing.

          Do yourselves a favor kids: if you hope to have a future, open a textbook and stop getting your reality from YouTube. Many of you literally have no idea what’s true anymore. Open some textbooks while they still are allowed to exist.

          Because now the extreme liberal are doing exactly the same as the extreme conservative.

          Mods: SHAME ON YOU.

          I’m replacing my comments because the forum doesn’t deserve them. I fully expect to be banned. That’s ok. I just hope some people see this and think for a moment.

      • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
        72·
        16 days ago

        It’s a genocide

        Genocide

        On 26 January 2024, the ICJ said that it was plausible that Israel had breached the Genocide Convention. As an emergency measure, it ordered Israel ensure that its army refrained from genocidal acts against Palestinians.

        The ICJ reported, as part of its decisions in March and May, that the situation in Gaza had deteriorated and that Israel had failed to abide by its order in January.

        So, when we look at the actions taken, the dropping of thousands and thousands of bombs in a couple of days, including phosphorus bombs, as we heard, on one of the most densely populated areas around the world, together with these proclamations of intent, this indeed constitutes genocidal killing, which is the first act, according to the convention, of genocide. And Israel, I must say, is also perpetrating act number two and three — that is, causing serious bodily or mental harm, and creating condition designed to bring about the destruction of the group by cutting off water, food, supply of energy, bombing hospitals, ordering the fast evictions of hospitals, which the World Health Organization has declared to be, quote, “a death sentence.” So, we’re seeing the combination of genocidal acts with special intent. This is indeed a textbook case of genocide.

        More than 800 scholars of international law and genocide have signed a public statement arguing that the Israeli military may be committing genocidal acts against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip as the total siege and relentless airstrikes continue to inflict devastation on the occupied territory.

        An independent United Nations expert warned Monday that “Israel’s genocidal violence risks leaking out of Gaza and into the occupied Palestinian territory as a whole” as Western governments, corporations, and other institutions keep up their support for the Israeli military, which stands accused of grave war crimes in the Gaza Strip and West Bank.

        Our documentation encompasses over 500 incitements of violence and genocidal incitement, appearing in the forms of social media posts, television interviews, and official statements from Israeli politicians, army personnel, journalists, and other influential personalities.

        Others: AP News, Time, Reuters, Vox, CBC

        Deliberate Attacks on Civilians

        Israel deliberately targets civilian areas. From in general with the Dahiya Doctrine to multiple systems deployed in Gaza to do so:

        Israel also targets Israeli Soldiers and Civilians to prevent them being leveraged as hostages, known as the Hannibal Directive. Which was also used on Oct 7th.