Well… could it be that they saturated?
I mean, the consoles been out for a while, I suspect at this point everyone remotely interested has one?
That’d make sense, but that’s still a negative sign, as PS5/Switch have yet to meet saturation.
Thing is, they don’t need to sell consoles anymore. They’re in the gamepass business now. This is why they’re pushing gamepass on phones, PCs, Samsung TVs and Firesticks. They don’t really care about selling you a box under the TV anymore since they’re usually sold at or near a loss anyway. They just want you on the subscription wherever you can play it.
They currently have roughly 34 million subscribers (as of February, I’m guessing Activision Blizzard King is going to bump this number up further), let’s assume an average of $12 a month. That’s over $400 million coming in every month or 1.2 billion every quarter on the books. They don’t have to rely on a big game to have a good month.
You’re more valuable to them having the gamepass subscription and just playing on your phone over someone who buys a console and purchases 7 or 8 games a year. Articles like this fundamentally misunderstand the current gaming landscape and their business model. They’re not losing the race, they’re playing a different sport.
I think I’ll just stick to playing retro games in emulators for free without a subscription. Sure I miss out on the latest and greatest games, but graphics aren’t everything to me, the gameplay is more important to me. Plus, I really despise having to have subscriptions for everything. If Game Pass works for people, more power to those gamers, but I’m tired of giving what little income I have to billion dollar companies. /rant
Thing is, they don’t need to sell consoles anymore. They’re in the gamepass business now.
They need to sell consoles to sell GamePass to people. Nobody is going to play games on a Firestick. Same reason why nobody bought the mobile ports of Resident Evil. Those who play games, buy the hardware for it. Some go overboard with the high-end PC and some prefer to buy a cheaper console, but nobody is like “yeah I’ll play Elden Ring on my phone”. Gamers want the hardware, and casuals don’t buy gaming subscriptions. It’s a lost cause.
“MS doesn’t care about selling Xbox console” is a lie they have been pushing for a while now because their console sales have been tanking for that many years. They would LOVE to sell more consoles, they just can’t, so they attempt to spin the story a different way so that the shareholders are still happy. What, you want to know about sales? But who cares about sales, it’s all about engagement! Look at those big, happy numbers we are showing you!
Nobody enters a business with the idea that “whatever, even if we don’t sell enough, it’s fine, we still had a great time”. MS didn’t became the world’s biggest corporation by being lazy.They currently have roughly 34 million subscribers (as of February, I’m guessing Activision Blizzard King is going to bump this number up further), let’s assume an average of $12 a month. That’s over $400 million coming in every month or 1.2 billion every quarter on the books. They don’t have to rely on a big game to have a good month.
That’s great until you consider the fact that GamePass doesn’t operate in a vacuum. To put games on their service, they have to pay developers. They then need to please shareholders who want subscribers and revenue to increase. The fact that they increased the price twice in a row and effectively doubled the price of GamePass overnight suggests that they are not pleased with the current revenue.
Heck, we don’t even know how many of those 34m subscribers are paying customers, and how many just got into GP by paying $1 or benefitting from some other deal. I was one of those 34m back in February, because I got a year for free with the Rewards program (back when it was still worth something; they axed that one as well, because of course). When they asked me to pay to renew it, I cancelled the subscription. I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one.You’re more valuable to them having the gamepass subscription and just playing on your phone over someone who buys a console and purchases 7 or 8 games a year.
Sure, but that’s the same as Don Mattrick asking customers to “stick to their X360”. The choice is not between buying games on XOne or subscribing to GamePass on your phone. The choice is between an Xbox, a PS5, a Switch or a PC. Two of those choices means that they have lost a customer (you can’t subscribe to GP on PS or Nintendo consoles), and I’d be curious to know how many people are subscribing for GP on PC instead of just buying games on Steam. You don’t need GP to play online on PC as you do on console, and the prices are cheap enough that you are probably saving money just buying those games instead of renting them.
And let’s not talk about how terrible the user experience is on their PC storefront compared to literally any other competing storefront - I’d rather buy a game on Epic than use their Xbox store, and that says a lot. I had a game on PC thanks to the Play Anywhere program (bought it on Xbox, got the PC version as well), but I had to buy it again on GoG to mod it because MS considers their game files more precious than the holy grail itself and wouldn’t let me go anywhere close to them, let alone touch them.Just wanted to comment that the Xbox/MS store games are fine now. They used to be in some shitty encrypted directory but not anymore. I have Gamepass for free from a ton of Microsoft rewards points and primarily play GP games on my Xbox, but I’ve played a few on PC as well and I’ve not found it to be too much different from Steam. You can go to a directory and see all the game files as expected. The always online bit sucks though, the recent Microsoft outage due to Cloudstrike kept a lot of people from playing games. That said, I don’t buy any games there, but my experience with gamepass games has been fine past that initial encrypted directory phase.
I think they fucked up with the series s/x. The Balder’s Gate 3 release made me realize that their policy that games needed to have the same features enabled for both the s and x essentially meant that even if you spend the extra money on the x, it will be held back by the s merely existing.
They could stop charging gamers a subscription to play the paid games (they “own”) online.
This could attract some customers that don’t want to deal with PC or don’t want to add fixed costs to their monthly or yearly bill.
They could stop charging gamers a subscription to play the paid games (they “own”) online.
This is one of the key reasons why I own PS5, but I don’t play or invest in it. Even though couch gaming is much more comfortable for me.
I’m in the same boat.
Elden Ring, Helldivers 2, many games I’d get on Sony PS Store that I just get on Steam because I want to “own” the full game not just the offline part of it.
You don’t own steam games tho.
Microsoft not being evil? Not going to happen. (Except for smokescreen purposes and amounts)
There was a time where it was worth the money because it was far and away better than any free online offering. That time was probably up to about 2010. Now that servers are paid for with digital game sales, it would behoove them to drop the fee. Instead, I think they’re just about to change the console market as we know it.
Instead, I think they’re just about to
changeend the console market as we know it.FTFY
Also accurate. But it’s looking like we’ll still have $500 machines called Xboxes and PlayStations, except they’ll just be fancy PCs. That’s my guess anyway.
Possibly. I can see Xbox backing out personally, and just putting their games on PC and the other consoles.
Sony will probably carry on… and Nintendo likely has a detailed business plan for the next 100 years.
Sony’s already not carrying on. They’ve started putting their games on PC, which is a market that is, for the first time, larger than their console for the same game releases. Nintendo’s got another generation of hardware before they’ll need to change anything.
They started putting games on PC, but their plan is to make sequels console-exclusive.
Fair - I’d be surprised if they haven’t already been working on a ps6 for years though.
In my mind Nintendo is going to be more or less immune to the death of the console market. They did have done a really, really good job at making fun games since the 80s, and have also traditionally had the cheapest hardware (not that that will matter if the competition goes away). I might impulsively buy whatever Nintendo’s next console is just for Zelda or Metroid, even though Nintendo as a company pisses me off.
They already are just PCs and have been since the PS4/XBone. It’s all just slightly customized PC hardware inside.
Even as far back as the first xbox, I remember some people installing Linux on it. It’s also why Halo later came out for the PC, because porting it wasn’t that difficult. Iirc, the first xbox didn’t run any Windows kernel but it did use direct x.
They don’t run the same executables that Steam does though, and I think that’s what’s about to change.
I would actually consider getting one if that were the case. But no console maker will ever do that again - too many suckers willing to pay. Sony at least lets you play F2P games without a sub.
Xbox is the same with f2p. Fortnight and those minds games are free
Oh yeah, forgot Microsoft changed it years back.
Yea I realized a bit ago my kids are only playing fortnite and Roblox, I had no need to be paying for game pass ultimate for TWO accounts lol. Plus, they use steam big picture mode in the living room.
Maybe don’t close the studios making your only good games next time? Dunno, just a thought
This was the reason I left. Don’t fire your flagships.
It’s one of those pieces of advice like “Don’t lie on the ground naked next to a fire ant colony” but I guess some people really are that stupid.
The studios they kept around are making games that are a shadow of their former selves too - Halo Infinite and Forza Motorsport come to mind, as well as Starfield. Microsoft Flight Simulator is the only really good one still as far as I can tell.
I’m not surprised. My experience with Xbox has declined over the last few years now so wouldn’t recommend it to anyone anymore.
What has changed if you don’t mind?
- I bought the newest console to play the most recent Halo. It truly sucked
- The first Bethesda exclusive game was Starfield. It truly sucked
- The recent focus has been towards online multiplayer and GAAS. Toxic games and toxic service models.
- The ads are insane. Sometimes I’ll turn the console on to a full screen ad about Diablo or Game Pass I have to acknowledge before actually using the console. Beyond that there is designated space on the home menu for 3 different banner ads.
Just my opinions as someone that’s enjoyed that xbox brand since the first one, and stuck with it out of convenience and from making friends on the network there. Next “console” is a proper gaming computer
The last console other than the switch that I owned was the PS3. I loved that UI. A buddy was like “let’s play some Halo” and I loved halo 1 and 2 but the rest just don’t do it for me. Once he booted up his Xbox and I was driving the UI trying to launch the game I just wanted to hurl. Such a garbage UI. Littered with ads etc.
No idea what PS5 UI looks like but they’re just PCs with a custom UI at this point so I’ll stick with my PC.
PS5 ui is actually quite bland but at least it isn’t crammed full of useless shit like the Xbox dashboard.
I find the aesthetics of Xbox are actually nice but again they fill the dash with so much stuff it’s a mess and intrusive.
I’ve grown a bit tired of the Xbox experience as well with some of what you’ve mentioned. I also don’t play every single game that comes out, just a select few with whatever free time I do have. I want to get away from online gameing if I can, though I’m not against it my preferences are just shifting so I want to gravitate more to single player games and currently I’m considering the next Switch console (Switch 2?) and just play all the first party games Nintendo is known for, Zelda, Mario, Starfox, etc and all their retro games that’ll be on the online store. I could get lost for years with that content. Really excited to possibly have that option for myself in the future. Just thought I’d share a different perspective.
I was a heavy Xbox user up until last year when they redesigned the Xbox home screen.
Instead of being able to pin multiple groups of custom apps/games wherever you want, you now only get one group pinned about halfway down the page past several rows of ads. There are generally at least 5 separate rows of ads on the homescreen at all times.
I have a series x (also had an original, 360, and one), and will 100% not be buying another console from Microsoft. The joy of using my expensive console was ruined by ads.
I need to finish Elden Ring, after which my Xbox will be used as a steaming device for videos from my PC or Kodi exclusively.
Edit - upon checking it looks like you can actually pin 2 custom groups. But there are also really 14 rows of ads, not 5, so…
Thanks, that sounds awful and i don’t blame you
TANGO
Tango Tango Tango.
Confused? Search “Xbox Tango Gameworks”
Games = Usually okay
Console = NahSame. I recently bought a PS5 after being an Xbox user since the post-N64 days. The difference in quality is substantial.
They really do seem dead-set on transitioning to a software rental company. Let the hardware languish and shove another tier of Game Pass into the marketing grinder.
I started dropping off after every time I started to boot my Xbox it just was just ads upon ads trying to sell me stuff and not gettin me into the games faster.
Oh crap. That just PlayStation’s going to do it too. Right now I get ads at the bottom and games at the top so I can at least jump straight into a game. Assuming I don’t boot straight into one because I went to rest mode in it.
But the second MS proves this, Sony will follow.
I use mine primarily for media and occasionally play online with friends. They killed gold, and reverted to game pass core, so now I have to pay $10/month to play games I own. They are deleting my purchased games, ea archived an active account for inactivity when I had playtime in the calendar year. There is no new IP, they shut down studios, and raised prices, locked us into a shitty platform and started monitoring and monetizing their paid users.
They deserve this
🤢🤮
My Baseless Prediction, i.e. if I ran Xbox, what I would do given their situation:
Microsoft will sunset the Xbox as a console but focus on creating a dual boot mode for Windows similar to the Steam Deck and Big Picture Mode. Probably called “Xbox Mode” or something similarly unoriginal but evocative. This streamlined mode will greatly reduce system overhead and be controller-centric, and it will have an emulation layer to support all Xbox ecosystem games along with backward compatibility. On certain form factors it will be the default boot mode, and supporting this they will release two new Windows PC form factors: a living room box and a handheld. Other PC manufacturers will be able to jump on the wagon as well. I doubt they will in any way define reference performance profiles akin to a console “generation” but they may have some kind of guidance regarding how graphics should scale seamlessly between TV/monitor and handheld form factors to allow for a Switch-like docking experience.
You need to shoehorn some AI into this tho
Uggggghhhhh. Me, I’d just support DLSS-style upscaling and call it a day but realistically there will be some GenAI bullshit for sure.
Somebody was showing off an AI technique to de-interlace old videos. This is a problem that is notoriously difficult to solve algorithmically you either end up with blurs or you end up with crossfade.
This will revolutionize the old VCR porn market
There’s always room for more
If it means my console friends will finally play on PC I’m for it
I mean technically yeah. But it might also mean some meeting-in-the-middle on what PC/console even means. It’s probably push PC fanning even more toward being console, with the benefits of more consistency and less cheating, but the downside of being less flexible and more crowded with console players. Probably also a bigger push for buying PC games through the Microsoft store when possible.
This is what I believe too
This streamlined mode will greatly reduce system overhead and be controller-centric
This doesn’t sound like anything Microsoft has done before.
For what it’s worth, Windows 8, while tragically mistargeted, was a marvel of streamlined engineering.
But your skepticism is sound. Microsoft hasn’t been able to execute a bold and cohesive vision in at least a decade, if arguably ever.
Because no one wants a console with ads, has no gyro aiming, strange support for older Xbox/games.
Xbox is dead as a console, but will live on as Game Pass on PC, Smart TVs, Portable, and an eventual ARM puck you bring with you.
The industry is going to be in a weird place where Sony and Nintendo are the only first parties and hardware vendors. Its too costly for an upstart, they can just focus on the PC.
I think this is a good point. Heavy gamers are going PC. More flexibility and more ways for them to play. That leaves casual gamers, which previously might buy a console, but it’d eventually collect dust. New game streaming services serve them better.
Game Pass is trash. I only play GoG games, at this point.
They lost me forever when they tried to make the Xbone unable to play games unless you were online.
Let me just fire up all these Xbox exclusive and first party games they’ve released since like 2021…
I have a real opposite problem with exclusives. I don’t think they should exist. A console should just be a means to an end: to play a game.
I get why they do it but it’s bullshit. It’s just a custom PC that plugs into a TV.
The case I see is like this: Many publishers increasingly argue that they don’t have a strong monetization plan for big epic singleplayer games unless they have a dozen forms of microtransactions. For Sony, the monetization plan for God of War is the PlayStation 5 - and all of the residual purchases that come after someone owns one. 80% of those purchases will be of games that are on both Xbox and Playstation - but went to the latter because God of War and Spiderman are awesome. With that in mind, the teams making those games can sorta just aim for awards, not perfect profitability.
I completely agree. Console exclusives are crap. Especially with how good PCs are.
Halo Infinite - failed
Starfield - failed
Forza Motorsport - terrible launch
Redfall - failedOut of curiosity, I googled exclusives for Xbox series exclusives. They’ve got things like Forza Horizon 5, sunset overdrive and Ori. Like, sure, but you can’t say proudly that your console is being held aloft by 4+ year old titles when the competition is releasing banger after banger!
They just missed the mark. You can spend billions on R&D and marketing for a new console, billions on buying up game studios to make new games, but if your games suck on launch, people won’t play on your console.
What XBox has done this generation is borderline suicide.
I know Ori is also on Switch. I’m not sure about Ori 2.
Its on PC. At least the first one.
Ori and Forza are on PC, I don’t know about the other one
Yes exactly. A large number of their older titles exist on other platforms like the Switch and of course, the PC, where gamepass lets people play those titles for a very affordable price.
All the more reason then to make games like Starfield and Halo infinite the absolute best games they could be
Opening the door to a switch to a Steam Deck competitor instead
I have some questions there.
-
hHs that even ever been so much as rumored? There were leaks from various suppliers hinting at the Deck and Switch long before they were in develop. It’s possible I missed something, or possible they just haven’t leaked anything, but so far I don’t have a reason to think they would be trying to enter that space.
-
Microsoft seems to be abandoning that space. The Windows phone died ages ago, and the Surface seems to be languishing.
-
Operating System. Would it be windows? There are already plenty of handhelds that run windows, and usually the biggest problem people have with them is that windows sucks for that application and they replace the OS. Would they have a custom OS like the Xbox? What would it bring to the table that Steam LS doesn’t? Valve already put in a ton of work to get Steam OS as good as it is- would Xbox/Microsoft do that too? If it just uses Steam OS, what does the hardware bring that differentiates it from the Deck?
-
Software. I don’t know what the unit cost of a Deck is, but I’m guessing it’s pretty close to the sales price. The Deck does not need to be a profit center for Valve as long as it drives software sales on Steam. The Microsoft store has already failed- would an Xbox store on such a device manage to be profitable? Would it be locked down and incompatible with Steam? Maybe they could partner with Epic to compete? I’m just having a hard time seeing Xbox/Microsoft enter that business model.
What might be more likely is something like the Portal or G-Cloud. An ARM-based, lightweight product designed to be used for cloud gaming with GamePass. Maaaaaybe some local streaming from your PC or Xbox too. Even with that they would be competing against other products and pretty much every smartphone and tablet. There might be room to move some units, but similar to Sony I don’t see that being huge.
It’s all rumors and speculations.
Keep in mind that the products that exist already don’t have the OS developer behind them, Microsoft could do exactly like Steam and have a gaming ready UI based on the Xbox UI and plain old Windows 11 running in the background (tweaked to better fit the portable PC setup).
Considering that Xbox sell less and less, that the Xbox is basically a locked down PC at this point, that people go crazy for portable PCs and that they can actually replace a console… I mean, it would make a lot of sense. They already have a hardware division as well so…
True, but I’m not sure how closely Xbox works with the rest of Microsoft. As far as I know you have never been able to put Windows on an Xbox or Xbox System Software on a PC officially. In contrast, the PS2 and PS3 had official Linux support (which Sony tried to remove from. The PS3 for security concerns and got sued for).
Microsoft has a hardware division yes, but barely. It’s basically just Xbox, which is failing, and the Surface, which is also failing. They already lost the Mobile market. They seem content to have their laptop and desktop focus just be getting Microsoft software on other hardware.
I kind of get the impression that’s the direction they are moving. They simply haven’t done well in hardware, and their more successful business areas are the ones that are putting Microsoft software onto 3rd party hardware.
I’m still not convinced GamePass is really going to work, but Xbox and Microsoft seem to be. And while I don’t like subscriptions in general, GamePass definitely surpasses any competitor. So rather than roll out new hardware, I think they are moving towards putting GamePass on the Switch 2 and PS5 or PS6. Microsoft has instructions published for getting Xbox Cloud Gaming working on the Deck. I think they want that on the handhelds from AYA, AYN, Asus, Logitech, GPD, and everything else.
They might want to make Windows a viable option for those handhelds, but… They also might not. That would be a huge amount of work for them to compete with Steam. And we’ve seen how unpopular Windows 11 has been. They’ve been downsizing the teams working on Windows for years and focusing more on Edge and AI. I get the impression they just want the Xbox division to lower costs and become profitable at this point.
You’ve read those gamepass on steamdeck instructions?
I’m sure there exists someone who wants to do that but seems more like wishful thinking.
I also thought it was interesting that they can’t create their own flatpack to supply for Edge, although I would never put a microsoft product on a linux station myself.
I’m not sure how closely Xbox works with the rest of Microsoft
For an answer look up how many Microsoft games have been ported to Windows ARM.
-
I’m getting rid of my xbox when the ps5pro comes out. the fact that the Xbox just keeps regressing in features (I can’t plug in a USB microphone wtf???) and rising costs of game pass just pushed me back to Playstation.
I was disappointed to find out that my PS5 doesn’t support Bluetooth headsets. You’ve gotta get one of the Sony ones I guess. The controller looks like it has an RCA port for analogue headphones and a built in mic, so it might fit your use case but I was pissed when it wouldn’t let me use my wireless bone conduction headset instead of the earbuds on the PSVR2. I usually just use my TV speakers because earbuds never stay in my ears properly, but it would be nice to be able to play without worrying about the volume being too loud for others, like late at night.
I think they saw the writing on the wall with PC gaming resurging
Yep. If it isnt dedicated couch coop or party games, why wouldn’t you get something with minimal/no vendor lock, and hardware you can control/upgrade?
Well once upon a time a console was a small fraction of the cost of a PC and the experience was put game in, turn console on, play game. Sure a console had a fraction of the computing power of a contemporary desktop but typically they had hardware specifically for graphics and sound and games were usually coded very efficiently for the specific hardware often directly in assembly.
That hasn’t been the case for a good long while now. Consoles and their games receive updates just like PCs do. Yes the purchase price of a PC and its associated hardware is probably does still cost more than a console…until a few months of paying for those subscriptions go by. Console hardware is now very closely related to PC hardware. So the value proposition is for the price of a low-end gaming PC you get a lower-middle class gaming PC with a 90% less useful operating system, recurring costs and worsened versions of games.
Meanwhile Valve says “Yeah we made using a normal gaming PC on the living room TV work pretty well a WHILE ago. Also, you know the Nintendo Switch? Well we’ve built a full fat gaming laptop into a similar form factor of portable device. It’s an x86 PC, it runs PC games natively. It runs Linux, you can get to a desktop, hook it up to a keyboard and mouse and you can do spreadsheets and run CAD on it for all we care.” And it’s been such a big success that several competing products have been hastily pushed out that run off-the-shelf Windows and none of them are as good.
It’s mobile gaming too. Phones are eating their lunch on the small games. PCs are doing it on big games. And it’s their own restrictive rules that caused it.
I have two kids. Both prefer pc or switch for exclusives. They haven’t touched the PlayStation or Xbox in months if not years. I don’t even think they know how to turn them on.
